Episode 2 - Jo Nelson's future
EPISODE 2:
JO NELSON’S FUTURE
In our first full episode, Jo Nelson, extraordinary facilitator and thinker shares the future she imagine.
Episode Note:
I could not think of a better person to open this podcast with than Jo Nelson. She is the lead editor of the new edition of The Art of Focused Conversation book describing facilitation methodology I based the interview guide for this podcast on. Jo has mentored generations of facilitators around the world and continues to do so on her website https://jofacilitator.ca.
Full disclosure: I am a volunteer board member of the Institute of Cultural Affairs Canada (https://www.icacan.org), which is the steward of Focused Conversation and other facilitation methodologies. If you are interested in learning more about the methodology you can do that here: https://ica-associates.ca/courses/focused-conversation-method/
I believe that these are important conversations, so there are no ads because you don’t need another mattress and there are no subscriptions. If you find yourself listening to the podcast and feel like you can afford to support it you can Buy Me a Coffee. If you’d like to leave a comment or be a guest on one of the future episodes go to www.futurespossible.com and leave a comment under an episode and there you will also be able to see a transcript of each episode.
Music: Blue Dot Sessions
AI Generated Transcript
HOST: These are… complicated times. So many decisions to make. So much uncertainty. So much insecurity. And yes, yes, I know, that's part of being human. But this… this feels different. It feels like crossroads. Like an inflection point between radically different worlds. Hi, I'm Bojan Fürst. And you are listening to Futures Possible. At this time of uncertainty, I ask my guests to imagine a future and themselves in it. My first guest is very special. I'm going to let her introduce herself.
JN: My name is Jo Nelson. Jo Rees Nelson. I'm retired as a professional group process facilitator. I worked for 52 years before I retired. and I have… I have lived all over the planet. And I consider myself a global citizen.
HOST: What Jo did not tell you is that she's the lead editor of a book called The Art of Focused Conversation. Focused conversation is a method that empowers groups of people to work through problems they encounter. I did that kind of work for years in communities across rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I thought it would be interesting to turn that method into an interview guide. Jo was thrilled when I told her what I wanted to do. And she asked if she could be the guinea pig. How could I say no. So, this is the future Jo imagined .
JN:. I spent a lot of time though imagining five years from now and it although although I'm in utter despair these days, I I know that what what you imagine, what you envision and articulate is more likely to happen. It's It's like prayer. world. I Because it has to do with naming and asking what what you want to see in the world. Jo is the future Jo is the future. I think the universe was kind of telling me that I needed to do that.
Well, Well, Well... I'm I'm 76. so So, five years from now I will be 81. And I have 81 year old friends.
So So, imagining what I want to be… I want to still be physically active at 81. I want to be living in my own house. Um, was the future. I want to still hope to be living in my own house. I want to be active enough to be in charge of my own life. I'm intending to be able to get out and walk down the street. And I mean I live in a place where most of the necessities of life are within walking distance. and And I intend to continue to do that. That's what I'm intending. And And I think of the vision as something I'm intending, not just something I hope for, although I slip into that every once in a while. Um, so So, I'm continuing to get as much exercise as I can, although in the ice and I'm not out there walking, not taking risks. risks. I might still… I might use my walking… my hiking sticks more on, you know, 81 probably will. But I also want… I also intend to be in nature. So, I live in downtown Toronto, but there are parks and streams and river valleys and beautiful spaces that… where you can't see any houses in the middle of Toronto. And I intend to be out in those as much as possible. They give me… They make me whole.
There's a community consultation coming up, top-down unfortunately, that… about a giant housing project going up in there. Not… not a non-profit one, a for-profit condo building. And we've just had one another block over and the other… and a block the other direction So, it's becoming much more intensely urban, which is okay with me, because I'd rather have… and my vision, the density is not taking over farmland or green space.
I mean, it's not… it's not. It's not… it's not… the… we get more… kids for Halloween when we've got condos with small families in them, right? And I love Halloween. Of course, I'm a witch for you know. the the… the… Diane across the street, and Mary across the street, and Melissa and I, we call ourselves the witches of Westlake. We call ourselves Westlake. Mary Mary and Diane and I are all elders, and so… and witches have to do with wise wise women elders. I've had to convince them that that's really what a witch means. And Melissa played a witch in… in a… in a… in a… in a… one of the television programs. And so we said, okay, you're younger, but you can be a witch with us. So, we were… we're the… the four witches of Westlake. I mean, five years from now, I don't know if Diane will still be around here. Mary is my age. But I'm hoping that their families continue to be… to be friends and neighbors. And… and also the… the others… the others that I haven't named that are… that are… that are on my end of the street. But… I hope that continues because I really enjoy having the kids… having the kids there, you know. That's the time of the year, the only time of the year where doors are open to children, in the neighborhood. And I love that. And that's the kind of sense of community I want to continue in my neighborhood. I built a front, a little tiny front porch in my little tiny front yard that it's more like it's halfway between a deck and a porch. okay, And I sit out there every morning when it's warm enough. And I hope that continues for five years. I'm intending that to continue so that I say good morning to my neighbors every day in the summer. the
I I really appreciate the technology that connects us globally and cheaply. I don't, I hope that it becomes, I hope that it doesn't continue to support billionaires who tie up all of the resources. My ancestors came from Sweden and got letters once or twice a year. Essentially Essentially, people were, if they moved from one place to another, they lost all contact.
I really envision that we can continue to widen our world by being in contact with people across the planet. And And inshallah, Inshallah, they, it will be with people that we don't usually now talk to. It won't be with people that just like us. Like, you know, I I want to see, I I want to see a world where that's a world where that is open, that that is accepting, that that listens to each other. I I want to see a world where people are participating in decisions that affect their lives. That the leadership is actually asking for their input rather than telling them what they think. And, and, and, and, and trying to get them to agree with whatever the, the, the leader says. Um, I've really committed my life to participation from the grassroots up. and And I want to see that increase.
My father was an extraordinary person. He loved politics because it was grassroots people making decisions about things that affected their lives. I took that to heart. Now, my dad wanted me to be the first American woman president, but. Unfortunately, I was a page in the legislature at age 16 and saw the nasty stuff that went on in the back rooms. It was hidden in those days. It wasn't out in the front in those days. And I saw all of that nastiness going on and I never went back. But what I did do is take my father's vision of ordinary people making decisions that affected their lives. And, and, and started working with doing that in communities. My vocation is building bridges between people. Right now, going through a bunch of old files. And the stories are coming up of places that I learned how to deal with things like, like polarization in a facilitated event. More than once. Which is something that we badly need right now. And it's something that I'm working, working on trying to work, uh, processes and methods to help people come together across polarization. Understand each other's thinking. If not, if not agree, at least understand each other and respect each other.
This is where I have the most trouble really envisioning positive, positively. Five years from now, the American, uh uh, presidential term will be over for a year. That doesn't mean anything exactly in this current time. Um, but I do see people being being generous with each other. I see people, um, um, opening up to some of the, the, the destructiveness that's going on. And I do think that, -- I mean, I've got this quote in front of me from Margaret Mead. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. And I, I think that's going to happen. Protests maybe, but not protests, just building relationships. But But I think that one of the things that I, that that needs to happen to make that happen is that people need to, to experience what other people are experiencing. So, I I feel like it's tenuous. I feel like it's, it's possible. I feel like it is going to require : a lot of intervention to make it happen. And uh I, uh, inshallah,
inshallah, it will happen. I What's tenuous about it? There are There are all kinds of destructive forces that that that are, that are working that are working against that. It feels like they're It feels like they're very powerful. I don't know who's winning it. I'm not, I don't live in win, lose. Exactly. Exactly. I, I, yeah. And I don't, I, I I think one of the greatest challenges in Western civilization is that we see things in dualisms. You know, right, wrong, us, them, good, bad, win, lose, win, lose, where I think the universe is more like a diamond with many, with many dimensions to it. And the more of those that we, that we can see, that we acknowledge the better. Mm hmm.
I did at one point after a very polarized facilitation event, facilitation event, have a mystical a mystical experience kind of thing.
I saw the forces of healing and destructiveness as they were going on in the world around me. at that In the end, In the end, in the end, I saw that I had been I saw that I had been chosen to be on the side of the healing forces for no reason of my own. I experienced the... Humility is not, you know, lashing yourself. Humility is discovering that you are part of something that you didn't choose that is much larger than you. And you don't know why, but you're grateful, but you also feel this immense responsibility. It forces you almost literally to your knees. And that was the experience that I had. Now, that's, that's the real... That's part of that underlying story of who I am and why I do what I do.
That gives me commitment. That gives me... That gives me... Keeps me going. But what gives me hope is that there are... There are... There are colleagues out there. There are people who understand their role in healing. And how have you thought... However they understand that their role in healing and bringing society together. The world together. And that when we find each other, that that
can be this small group of thoughtful, committed citizens.
So... Ask the why questions, but ask them with curiosity. When people say something that you absolutely don't agree with, something something in their lives brought them to that place. Why do they think this?
I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's the, it's the, it's it's the, it's the carrying out of that working assumption that everyone has wisdom, and we will, and we will, and we will listen to it. There are no wrong answers. But because underneath that, somebody came to that answer, whether it's, well, you know, them, you know, may not agree with it, it may not even be true. But underneath it, they came from some experience that brought them to it. and And asking the why question with curiosity with curiosity rather than why the hell do you think that allows allows people to look at their own position and and and understand themselves as well as you understanding it. Now they
What's my next step? Well, Well, Well, I'm trying to create a conversation for people to have with their neighbors about things going on, about the issues they have. I'm thinking, if you brought your neighbors together, a kitchen table dialogue, you know, just, just around a cup of tea.
And you ask, how could you have a conversation about what's going on, so that you could hear hear what people really wanted for themselves to do and also for the their leaders to do. I haven't I haven't quite worked it out because starting, figuring out what the tangible beginning point is that has objective data that you can, I mean, the part of the problem is that we have, we have screwed around with objective data so much that there, it's hard to find people who have even seen the same thing. And And so I haven't And so I haven't quite figured out, but I'm working on conversations for people to have with neighbors. And then And then the idea of that is that if you, if a lot of people did this, and you had some idea of what ordinary people wanted, then you then you could send these to political leaders, or whatever other leaders, probably probably political, because that's where, that's the decision making poll, And and say, this is what ordinary people want. You know, You know, it would be, you know, it would be to your advantage, as a leader, to actually be in touch with what people want. Bu I But I haven't quite worked out the kinks in this. It's also, it's also challenging, because people are used to saying, oh, well, the politicians should solve everything for me. Somebody Somebody else should do this. You know, I, I shouldn't have to clean my sidewalk after the snow, the city is supposed to clean my sidewalk. Well, Well, now Malish, you know, too bad. They didn't. So let's clean each other's sidewalks, if we can, if we can, you know.
If I can provide the, the impetus for respect and openness openness and generosity and, and honoring of each other, then then that's who I want to be in history.
HOST: Thank you for listening. That was Jo Nelson, a mentor to generations of facilitators working with communities around the world. I am Bojan Fürst, and you listened to Futures Possible. I talk with my guests about the futures and a way of being they can imagine for themselves in this time of uncertainty. You can find Futures Possible, wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you would like to leave a comment or support the show, visit futurespossible.com. Take care.